Description
Why is it that people have the right to break the law, just because they're "going to church?" Every Sunday, my family, which includes three school aged children, takes a bike ride through the city. We specifically choose paths with good bike lanes so we can maintain the highest safety possible. But when ever we near a church, the bike lanes suddenly disappear, due to double parking and parking in the meridian by folks attending church services. This puts us in direct danger, having to ride in the "car lane" to go around the parked cars. There are plenty of city lots within walking distance of their houses of worship. Why is it OK to disregard the law on Sunday mornings? Why aren't they getting tickets left and right? If nothing else, it would raise additional revenue for the city. And it might just make people think again about more eco-friendly modes of transportation, like public transit, bikes, or their own two feet.
77 Comments
Anonymous (Guest)
Equality is the hallmark of the United States.
Jeff (Guest)
CarolineSF (Guest)
Wan (Guest)
BigV (Guest)
LarryW (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
BJ (Guest)
The biker community needs to understand that we all have to live together with each others differences. That is what this City is known for.
Please not there are more problems that need to be resolved with new changes to old patterns. Such as
Some bikers, do not follow the rules of the road, running red lights (almost hitting cars and pedestrians), turning right in an inside lane, whizing by seniors, should be required to tested on the laws.....
"LICENSE TO RIDE". People need to chill and be respectful to one another.
hubbert (Registered User)
This is not about BIKES this is about illegal parking. I respect peoples differences as long as I get to double park also.
Or as a brilliant alternative, we all could just choose to obey the law and not double park at all.
To me this is city endorsed inequality.
Equal justice under the law.
BJ (Guest)
where are these people going to park? these churches have been here for years. ride your bike on another street for a few hours on sunday.
TW (Guest)
Those people are going to park where the rest of us park when we go to an event in the City. They're going to look for street parking, find a paid parking garage, have someone drop them off, take a cab, or take public transportation. Why should going to church be any different from going out to dinner, seeing a movie, going to a concert, or going shopping?
Anonymous (Guest)
hubbert (Registered User)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/04/us/04bcjames.html
Parking Leeway for Churchgoers Poses Danger for Cyclists
By SCOTT JAMES
Published: June 3, 2010
Quote, "the city still does not ticket double parking during church services — even when congregants block dedicated bike lanes, a violation of the city traffic code that carries a fine of $105"
LH (Guest)
Margaret Wilson (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
CarolineSF (Guest)
John (Guest)
jefferson (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
CarolineSF (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
Edward Hasbrouck (Guest)
Double parking is a serious danger. Parking in the center of the street is an even more serious danger, obstructing views of turning vehicles. such illegally parked vehicles should be cited and towed.
The police and Department of Parking and Traffic claim that they have gotten few requests for enforcement, and will act on them if they get them. That's not true. What happens whenever I try to complain is that SFPD and DPT refuse to accept complaints or enforcement requests. As long as SFPD and DPT refuse to docket complaints or enforcement requests, nothing will change.
So the questions for SFPD and DPT are: (1) What is the proper phone number to call to request ticketing or towing of illegal (church) parkers? (2) If the DPT operator and/or SFPD officer refuses to act, what is the proper point of contact for escalation of the complaint against the officer (for refusal to docket the complaint and for selective non-enforcement) and request for enforcement? (3) What is the proper way to obtain confirmation that the compliant and enforcement request have been docketed? (4) From whom can records of those complaints and enforcement requests, and of what (if any) action has been taken on them, be obtained? (5) Are there copies available of any instructions issued to DPT and/or SFPD officers, instructing them to act on complaint and enforcement requests even if the parking is church-related), so that complainants can show those directives to officers who refuse to accept or acting complaints?
CarolineSF (Guest)
TW (Guest)
KB (Guest)
CarolineSF (Guest)
The only way to legitimize it and charge for it would be to simply create legal parking in those places at certain times, and make them "no parking" zones at other times. But would that conform to safety and traffic-flow standards overall? It seems unlikely.
Obviously it would be impossible to legitimize it while making it parking for specifically for churchgoers.
Full disclosure that I once parked in the Catholics-only zone on Dolores when taking my 16-year-old to get a nostril piercing at Body Manipulations one Sunday (it was her long-wished-for birthday present). Of course that raised the question: What if body art is your religion...?
Anonymous (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
lh (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
Maddy (Guest)
We can do it. (Guest)
Sun was out.... (Guest)
Wayne (Guest)
surprised (Guest)
hubbert (Registered User)
More info on how to deal with this may be found here: http://sfappeal.com/news/2010/06/does-sf-allow-illegal-church-parking.php
Here is a video showing other exempt folks who do not need to go through the same problems we taxpaying law abider's do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02FHNl9CTJM
More and more here: http://sf.mybikelane.com/ and here: http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2009/05/25/transit-first-goes-out-the-window-every-sunday-in-san-francisco-church-parking/
It is Sunday now, let's take pix and report folks!!
Just Sayin' (Guest)
you're going to have to go higher up than MTA/DPT or SFPD on this one.
There is a grandfathered legacy tradition in San Francisco of looking the other way when churchgoers park illegally in San Francisco. This goes way back to the city's pre-summer of love roots in working class and military traditions.
If you really want to change this, put pressure on the supervisors and mayor's office. Call in the media to back you up. But 311/DPT/MTA/SFPD are just going to shrug and hang up the phone when you call to complain -- status quo
We can do it. (Guest)
You could publicly document the Church Parking by sending photos from a cell phone camera to SF311 by twitter.
Also, if the City continues to discriminated on the basis of religion who they enforce the law on, the courts will have to drop everyone else's tickets who complains about unequal enforcement due to religion.
hubbert (Registered User)
I am wondering why this died? They still do it every Sunday. No one from the city or the police dept. have moved forward on this that I know of and I am still mad.
I would almost even be happy with an answer I don't agree with as long as it explains the policy in some way because for now it appears to a city condoned illegal activity.
BB (Registered User)
hubbert (Registered User)
Thanks Ben!
For the rest of us, we can track this by browsing over to http://www.sf311.org/index.aspx?page=4 and putting 751095 into the top field and leaving the bottom field blank.
hubbert (Registered User)
Still open...
311 has this:
San Francisco Case Tracker
Service Request Number 751095
Title complaint
Status Open
Date Opened 10/12/2010 13:41
If you have any additional questions, you can call 311 7 days a week, 24 hours a day at 311(Voice/TTY) toll free. From outside San Francisco, dial (415) 701-2311 (Voice/TTY). TTY direct (415) 701-2323
hubbert (Registered User)
still open:
San Francisco Case Tracker
Service Request Number
751095
Title
complaint
Status
Open
Date Opened
10/12/2010 13:41
If you have any additional questions, you can call 311 7 days a week, 24 hours a day at 311(Voice/TTY) toll free. From outside San Francisco, dial (415) 701-2311 (Voice/TTY). TTY direct (415) 701-2323
hubbert (Registered User)
hubbert (Registered User)
hubbert (Registered User)
BellaDancer (Registered User)
hubbert (Registered User)
hubbert (Registered User)
I went to SF311 to check the status on this and received the following:
San Francisco Case Tracker
Service Request Number 751095
Title complaint
Status Closed
Date Opened 10/12/2010 13:41
If you have any additional questions, you can call 311 7 days a week, 24 hours a day at 311(Voice/TTY) toll free. From outside San Francisco, dial (415) 701-2311 (Voice/TTY). TTY direct (415) 701-2323
Why? No details, no reasons. Just closed it. No feedback? This topic, "ree church parking in the median for churchgoers - all others get tickets" and "Church goers get to break the law and endanger cyclists" was one of the most highly rated issues on SeeClickFix and yet the city has deemed the compaint inconsequential.
Double standards in city government?
Seperation of church and state?
Safety of children less important than FREE parking for lawbreakers? JUST USE THE FOR-PAY CITY LOTS!!!
CSP (Guest)
BellaDancer (Registered User)
Dogtown (Registered User)
hubbert (Registered User)
Chris (Registered User)
Chris (Guest)
Quite a few if these people are shopping on Valencia and not in church.
By the way must we get rid of every tradition? If we can close streets for Sunday Streets..I don't think this is an issue at all.
Sam (Guest)
hubbert (Registered User)
Sam (Guest)
That is not realistic. This all started because there are not a bunch of garages or parking available.
This is a not an issue as a lane of traffic remains open while one lane is used to park.
Did you care when lanes where removed from Valencia and it was converted from four to two lanes? How about Folsom St...same thing?
The church goers leave after service and all if the late night cars still there I would speculate are not at church.
Sam (Guest)
hubbert (Registered User)
Sam (Guest)
As mentioned plenty of those who park there walk down to the shopping area of Valencia.
There is room for everybody to co-exist.
There is not plenty of parking btw....anyone who lives in the area knows this. This is why the tradition started.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Adios
Chris (Registered User)
Regardless of tradition, fairness, and civic priorities, the simple fact is that they are violating city parking and traffic codes as they block entire lanes of busy roads and bikeways. At least on Dolores St, the lane is commonly blocked for better parts of Saturday and/or Sunday (i.e., well beyond typical church service durations). It would be nice to have these facts addressed.
I recently spoke with a kind (no sarcasm intended) SF MTA parking supervisor, who explained the whole situation to me. This parking allowance dates back to when parking enforcement was administratively still under SFPD. In those days, the PD would instruct their attendants to not enforce parking on particular streets near certain churches. Evidently, these were informal exceptions negotiated by the local police captains and individual church leaders, and not any kind of official policy. The allowances were grandfathered in when parking enforcement split off from SFPD and joined SF MTA.
According to the supervisor I spoke with, parking attendants are still instructed *not* to ticket at these times and places, and the informal "arrangements" are still managed by the local police captains.
He insisted that the most effective recourse for those who take issue with the parking situation is to contact their local captain. I recently expressed my concern with ours (Captain Robert Moser) in person. I encourage anyone else displeased by the situation to do the same. Contact information for the Mission police station is here: http://sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=819
Thanks.
Sam (Guest)
Sunday Streets violates the laws as well and it is allowed because people enjoy the event.
People are enjoying church as well.
There are more people than you realize contacting civic leaders who are for leaving things just as they are.
Carlos (Guest)
Dave (Guest)
While we are talking about laws, what about the tech company commuter buses that use Guerrero which violates the vehicle weight laws?
This benefits an exclusive group which is breaking the law by driving in a restricted street. Should we go after them too?
The Captain at Mission should be dealing with violent crime, prostitution and reckless drivers who use the streets as a racetrack.
hubbert (Registered User)
Re: Charge on Meters on Sunday? Great! Good idea. Take public transit if you do not want to pay.
Re: Tech company busses, first off this is a red herring, secondly, a bus is mass transit and better than a car.
Re: Sunday Streets, This is a case where it affects everyone the same rather than giving special dispensation to one group.
Re: Police have better things to do? SFMTA hands out parking tickets, not the police. The police have better things to do, LOL.
Re: Funerals, there is a law on the books for them. There is not one for church parking.
end of rant.
Sam (Guest)
So we should ignore the law on the weight restrictions while enforcing the parking? A little bit of hypocrisy.
What about the Bartlett market last night...closed the whole street.
The churches can apply for an ISCOTT permit.
Don't be so angry. It is not personal.
Joseph (Guest)
I am going to have to say that I would rather have the Police working on violent crime as well.
If the entire street were blocked that would be different but one lane.
There are thousands of laws ib the books and ut is convenient for you to use some for your cause as we'll as ignore others that benefit your cause.
Instead of making the community better for all you prefer to make it better for yourself.
lisa (Guest)
Sam (Guest)
Wow.....
The tech buses can violate the law.
The Sunday parkers can't?
Interesting.
Chris (Registered User)
I've never believed in the power of comment boards to resolve much.
For those of you who do agree that this is a problem that needs to be dealt with, please contact our pertinent community leaders (namely, SFPD captains) and they'll add you to a list. If this list grows big enough, action will eventually be taken - for the benefit of all but a small minority of scofflaws, in my opinion.
Otherwise, trying to convince anyone to change their mind one way or the other through this forum seems futile, I'm afraid.
Guerrerista (Guest)
Закрыта J2 (Registered User)
hubbert (Registered User)
Chris (Guest)
Chris (Guest)